Re: Rivers, Tigris/Euphrates and their courses

From: glenn morton (mortongr@flash.net)
Date: Sat Mar 04 2000 - 11:23:36 EST

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    Dick pointed out that I had not sent this to the list.

    Hi Dick,

    At 11:58 PM 3/1/00 -0500, Dick Fischer wrote:
    >>The Bible doesn't say Eden was in the east, it says, "The LORD God planted
    >>a garden eastward in Eden,"
    >
    >If you and I were in Los Angeles, I might say I came from back east in
    Kansas >City. If you and I were in New York, I might say my home town was
    out west in >Kansas City. Kansas City doesn't move, my language is colored
    by my location. >Wherever the narrator was setting down the information,
    Eden was east, or you >might say the writer was west of the garden of Eden.
     This tends to eiminate >the Mediterranean basin as only the Atlantic Ocean
    lies west.

    You miss the point of what I see in that verse. I see it saying "eastward
    in eden" kinda like "eastward in California."

    >
    >Also, edin is an Accadian-Sumerian word which means plain, prairie or
    desert. >Again, this makes sense. God planted a garden east of the
    writer's location >in or near a desert. The ancient city of Eridu fits
    every word of the Genesis >narrative Including the rivers, all four of
    which can be tied with varying >degrees of certainty to that region.

    First, the abyssal Mediterranean was a plain. Second, not all understanding
    of the account can come from the Sumerians. Edin in Hebrew means pleasure.
     Which religion do you think is inspired--Sumerian or Hebrew? If all
    arguments must give way to the Sumerian version of the account, as you seem
    to argue for, then I would suggest we are members of the wrong religion.
    >It doesn't strike you as a "reach" that the Euphrates and Tigris have to
    flow >90 degrees from their present course, have to form a junction just as
    they do >now, have to be joined by two other rivers, one that can be
    associated with >Persia, the other with Saudia Arabia, and there is no
    trace of any ancient >river beds to substantiate your theory?

    It is no more odd for the Tigris and Euphrates several million years ago to
    have flowed at 90 degrees to their present courses than it was for the Nile
    to have done so (it did you know) or for the Colorado River of the Grand
    Canyon several million years ago to have flowed straight west and emptied
    along the California coast rather than Baja as it does now. Consider this:

            "Upper Paleocene to Middle Miocene fluvial-deltaic rocks in the Los
    Angeles and Ventura basins were deposited by a Colorado paleoriver prior to
    300 km of dextral displacement on the San Andreas fault. During the late
    Miocene, movement on the fault and associated rifting in the Salton trough
    rerouted the paleoriver into the proto-Gulf of California." ~ Jeffrey L.
    Howard, "Paleocene to Holocene Paleodeltas of Ancestral Colorado River
    Offset by the San Andreas Fault System, Southern California," Geology,
    24:9(Sept. 1996):783-786, p. 783

     And the Yellow River in the last 1000 years has altered its course to have
    emptied south of Shan Dong Province and then back into the Bohai Bay.
    Consider this for the Yellow River.

            "In the last 3,500 years, there have been 26 significant changes in the
    Yellow River's course. BEtween 602 B.C.--the year of the first recorded
    course change--and 1288, the river eptied into the sea between Tientsin and
    the Shantung peninsula, although in osme floods the stream split into two
    channels one on each side of the peninsula. Throughout those 19 centuries,
    the location of its mouth varied by only about 100 miles. THen in 1288, ag
    reat flood sent the Yellow charging across country, First it emptied into
    the Huai, nearly 200 miles to the southeast, then carved a channel across
    to the Yangtze and wound up emptying into the East China Sea almost 600
    miles south of its original porition."
            "During the next 567 years--a period of improvement in civil engineering
    and of more or less stable government--the Chinese managed to keep a
    relatively tight rein on their wild river. But in 1855, the Yellow tore
    open the dike on its left bank at Tungwa Hsiang, about 30 miles east of
    Kaifeng. During the next six years, while engineers tried repeatedly to
    repair the shattered dikes, the uncontrolled river wandered northeastward
    to the sea in many channels. Finally, in 1961, the river settled into its
    present channel about 500 miles to the north of its 1288 course, emptying
    into the Po Sea instead of the Yellow Sea." Champ Clark, _Flood_ Time Life
    Books, 1982, p. 42

    It was there that I saw the mouth of this mighty mile wide river.

    Dick, you really need to incorporate more geology into your objections.

    glenn

    Foundation, Fall and Flood
    Adam, Apes and Anthropology
    http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm

    Lots of information on creation/evolution



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