glenn morton wrote:
>
> At 08:52 PM 2/16/00 -0700, dfsiemensjr@juno.com wrote:
> >Nothing you have written changes what I have said. You still want a time
> >before time, which is nonsense. I fully appreciate the problem of
> >communicating the eternal to temporal humanity.
>
> Actually you really don't appreciate the problem. Because in spite of my
> clear statement that I do not have time before time, you continue to insist
> that I do. I will state it again because maybe you didn't understand it.
> There was no time prior to the Big Bang. But there was God and God was
> doing something. How would you speak of the things God did then?
>
> Even the language
> >presents problems, for "eternal" may mean timelessness, time without
> >beginning or end, and time with a beginning but no end. With the first,
> >which applies to the deity, there can be no before. With the second,
> >common to the ancient Greek philosophers, there was always both a before
> >and an after to every moment. With the third, there is a before to most
> >moments and an after to all. I take it to apply to the life of the
> >believer.
Both Dave & Glenn assume that God must indeed be "timeless" & go from there
but there is little reason for a Christian to make that assumption. Biblical statements
about God not "changing" are understood as well or better as statements of God's
faithfulness rather than of an immunity to time. That is, e.g., the significance of
Mal.3:6, "For I the LORD do not change" when one reads it in context. I.e., God's
covenant faithfulness is contrasted with the unfaithfulness of "the sons of Jacob."
Divine "immutability" then should be understood as God's faithfulness _through_ time
rather than timelessness.
Is there any positive reason to talk about divine temporality? Yes - the life
of Jesus is part of the divine life, not merely an "external work of the Trinity." & if
Jesus' history is part of God's history then God has a history, & God has time.
This does not mean simply that God's time is identical with that of the world.
God's time includes ours but isn't limited to it. We run out of time, something that we
all become more & more aware of as we get older. God has all the time God needs. God
thus is not just at the mercy of time & in danger of wearing out. The eschatological
promise given in the resurrection of Jesus is that God is in charge of the ultimate
future of the universe, & is able to grant creation a participation in that future.
& now I'm out of time.
George
George L. Murphy
gmurphy@raex.com
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
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