Re: *Physical constants

From: Massie (mrlab@ix.netcom.com)
Date: Thu Jan 13 2000 - 00:33:04 EST

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    Massie wrote:
    >
    > jeff witters wrote:
    > >
    > > On Wed, 12 Jan 2000 Massie wrote:
    > >
    > > >No I am not talking about Hal Lindsey and you know it and
    > >
    > > >Lets stay to the issue
    > >
    > > Yeesh! Sorry, I'll keep my jokes to myself. It's good to see
    > > you're not a fan of his either. Now that I'm sitting up good
    > > and straight...
    > >
    > > >What the e word does not do is predict the future in terms of
    > > >organism invention (not small modifications, but invention).
    > > >What I clearly referred to would be the predictive power of
    > > >evolutionary (meaning invention) theory to predict the next
    > > >big organism.
    > >
    > > I'm going to get my eyes checked next week, but still, for the
    > > record, all you said was predictive power. But now it's
    > > clarified, thank you.
    > >
    > > Suppose you tell me you have the now rare skills to build a
    > > car by hand. I say, "Wow! That's great, go ahead and build
    > > one. I'd like to see it." So you start chugging away and
    > > the next day I show up at your shop. "Well, where's your
    > > car?" "This sort of this takes a long time," you explain.
    > > To which I reply, "I'm not talking about pieces! I wanted
    > > an entire automobile, and you have a couple of pieces that
    > > anybody could put together," and I stomp off in a huff
    > > muttering about frauds.
    > >
    > > So you want the next big organism? OK, Thu. 24 Aug, 2000
    > > about 50 km due north of the confluence of the Rio Negro
    > > and the Amazon. (sorry, another ha ha)
    > >
    > > Back to the issue. Of course e predicts speciation, but
    > > given that what could be called serious biology has been
    > > around for less than tens of decades, do you know what
    > > you're asking for? I say not. You're slapping a straw
    > > man around with red herrings. On the time scale we are
    > > dealing with, we cannot predict and then CONFIRM a bona
    > > fide speciation in the future. Since when has turning
    > > to the past (fossil record, extant species assemblages)
    > > been off limits for predictions for such theories? Do
    > > you mean to tell me that predictions regarding crusty
    > > starlight from across the universe are bogus because it
    > > is from the past? Blowing off evolution is really fairly
    > > easy when we declare the past off limits -- the past is
    > > all we have to demonstrate what you want.
    > >
    > > Grace and peace be with you. Jeff
    > *************
    >
    > So you admit the lack of predictive power meaning the ability to
    > forecast the next big organism.
    >
    > But there is still this business of the elasticity in the e word. I did
    > not and do not have concern about speciation. Some claim it has even
    > been observed, meaning the development of non-breeding populations.
    >
    > Lets ask you something a little simpler. The E word people claim that
    > they cannot predict and then measure because of the time scale. So,
    > fine, how about explanatory power.
    >
    > Its not speciation. What I want explained is inventive power. That is,
    > where did these incredible organs such as the eye come from and how come
    > such dramatic animal changes occurred in such short times ( if we are to
    > believe JS Gould.) That is what is the key point to explain and I look
    > forward to your answer.
    >
    > Incidently, the book I was referring to about biology is Biiology by
    > Campbell, Reece, and Mitchell. You will be surprised to find a chapter
    > featuring our good friend Dawkins.
    >
    > Bert M.



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