Tim,
Thanks. I always knew I was a bit of a crack pot about this. I have
found Root-Bernstein to be more credible and restrained than Duesberg.
His multi-factorial model made more sense to me than Duesberg's theory.
It does bother me how politicized this disease is, and I still fear that
has colored some of the science. How many diseases get announced at
press conferences rather than in peer-reviewed journals, after all?
But I still have a few questions. Are there any know retroviral diseases
in humans? Why does a disease that is caused by one virus manifest
itself so differently in different parts of the world? Are there any
other viruses that do this in humans?
I know I just haven't read enough on this and am a bit lazy. If you have
a chance to answer before I have a chance to go over to the web sites,
I'd appreciate it.
Kamilla
Tim Ikeda wrote:
> Kamille wrote:
> [...]
> > Root-Bernstein posited a multi-factorial model.
> >
> > I dug out one of my Duesberg books this morning to review some
> > of it and, as I understand it, there are objections he has to
> > the HIV/AIDS theory that have not been answered. Three of them are:
> >
> > 1. The HIV/AIDS model contradicts what is known experimentally
> > about retroviruses. Most notably, they have a generation time
> > of 24-48 hours which is inconsistent with the long latent period.
> >
> > 2. There are no other known retroviral diseases outside of
> > the laboratory.
> >
> > 3. HIV does not kill T-cells.
> >
> > Have these three assertions of Duesberg's been answered? I would
> > appreciate anyone that can point me to the literature.
>
> Yes, they've been answered, and quite some time before the Johnson
> et al. article of 1995.
>
> For further reference, see:
> http://www.aids.wustl.edu/aids/HIVaids.html
> and
> http://www.aids.wustl.edu/aids/relhivaids.html
> (These are the FAQs associated with the newsgroup,
> sci.med.aids. I recall Johnson posting to this group
> around 1994-1996. I would also recommend searching
> web sites at the National Institues of Health).
>
> 1) I know that #1 is incorrect. As stated by James, other viruses
> such as the feline leukemia virus produce problems long after the
> initial infection. The generation time is irrelevant. HIV integrates
> into the host chromosome and continues to propagate. Antivirals
> medications can severely reduce the reproduction of HIV but can
> never eliminate the reservoir within infected cells.
>
> 2) Diseases caused by retroviruses outside the laboratory:
> There are quite a few and their numbers are increasing as we
> develop better methods of detection. For example, various simian
> immunodeficiency viruses have been found which produced AIDS-like
> problems in apes. These also have "latency" periods that can be
> measured in years. Such references go back to the mid- to late-
> 1980's and early 1990's.
>
> 3) The destruction of T-cells by HIV has been documented. Those
> references go back to the mid-1980's.
>
> My experience with Duesberg (I've followed his rants since the
> late 1980's and heard his talks at UC Berkeley), is that one
> shouldn't expect to see well-represented commentary from
> the man. Most of his arguments were dealt with by the early
> 1990's (I think earlier). Root-Berstein now limits his dissent
> to suggest that HIV isn't the *sole* cause of AIDS symptoms.
> And to some extent, that is correct. A disease that leads to
> the impairment of the immune system is not likely to "kill"
> directly. Other mechanisms, such as opportunistic infections and
> cancers, will do that. That is one reason why symptoms may
> vary between individuals and even regions of the world. Yet still,
> the disease associated with HIV infection, do follow common
> themes and have easily recognized patterns.
>
> Personally, I am very disturbed by Johnson's comments and involvment
> in the HIV/AIDS debate. Despite the fact that AIDS is "blooming"
> in Africa (something Johnson said he expected to see if the
> HIV/AIDS connection is real), or that all the criteria of Koch's
> "Postulates" have been met, I've not heard him make any retractions
> or corrections. In fact, I haven't read anything about his
> current position for the past several years.
>
> Regards,
> Tim Ikeda
> tikeda@sprintmail.hormel.com (despam address before use)
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