> > From: Jonathan Clarke <jdac@alphalink.com.au>
> > Don't you think you should if you are going to criticise both
> biostratigraphy
>> > and those who use it?
>>
>> Biostratigraphy is just not all that important to me, compared with
>> lithostratigraphy. Because of my position on Asteroid impact catastrophe,
>> I can't help but think that whatever ordering that there appears to be is
>> mostly apparent and not real. There has been alot of discussion of ID here
>> on how one can (or cannot) recognize intelligence. I think the same
>> applies to the application of ordering onto the fossil record. I feel that
>> the fossils found thus far represent too small of a sample to make claims
>> of ordering.
>>
>Jonathan Clarke replied:
>Over 200 years of systematic palaeontology at we don't have a large enough
>sample to make claims of ordering? The overall pattern has been established for
>over 150 years. Every time some identifies ns assemblage of fossils they test
>the previously established ordering of fossils. Millions of dollars ride on the
>results of biostratigraphy in the petroleum industry. If there was any problem
>in the order because it was based on inadequate sampling they would be evident
>by now. Certainly the petroleum industry has no vested interest in sustaining
>a concept which did not work and every reason to find an alternativfe it it
>would both save and make them money.
As a person who has spent his lifetime in the petroleum industry,
searching for oil and gas, I would like to put in my agreement here with
what Jonathan said. Occasionally a million dollar drilling decision is
made based upon the knowledge of the order of the fossils. If
biostratigraphy didn't work, my investors wouldn't be willing to spend
those dollars upon the order of a bunch of dead bugs. Here is how it
works. We know that the Lentic section (named after a microscopic,
benthonic foraminifera called Lenticulina 1) has lots of sand. We know
that the Chris S comes in right above it as do other bugs, like Disc
brouweri. So when we are drilling and we find Chris S at the depth we
thought that the Lentic was, we know that we need to drill deeper to
find the sand. Geophysicists are responsible for predicting the depths
from the velocity information available from the seismic, but those
velocities are inexact and we often miss the depth, but never miss the
order of the fossils. And if we drill deeper we almost certainly will
(occasionally the sands are pinched or are faulted out)
Now, the only reason that Allen doesn't find biostratigraphy relevant is
because he doesn't understand the physics of sedimentology. These
forams, nannoplankton and diatoms are approximately the same size and
differ from each other by shape. It is the decoration on the skeletal
remains that is sorted out in the fossil record. So Allen must explain
how a global flood was able to sort microscopic animals by their
decorations. Since these things are so small, turbulence and currents
will take them along for the ride. A turbulent global flood should have
thoroughly mixed these animals up. But they aren't mixed up. The only
explanation is that the animals represent different animals in the ocean
when the verious rock layers were deposited.
Below is a chart of the microfossils we use in the oil industry for the
Gulf of Mexico. If a YEC doesn't want to believe the dates on the left
column then he can merely represent this as relative order. These
microfossils are found in the same order offshore New Jersey as in the
Gulf of Mexico ( ~ S. Gartner and J. P. Shyu, "Aspects of Calcareous
Nannofossil Biostratigraphy and Abundance in the Pliocene and Late
Miocene of Site 905," in G. S. Mountain, et al, Proceedings of the Ocean
Drilling Program, Scientific Results, Vol. 150, p. 53-61, p.54, 57).
Many planktonic forms are found in the Mediterranean and in the Pacific
giving a biological datum for oceanic sediments almost world wide. Why
did no S.abies die early in the flood but they all chose to die at the
end? Biostratigraphy has lots of implications to the global flood which
Mr. Roy wants to avoid. In the chart below,the lowest rocks are at the
bottom of the chart and the highest rocks in the Gulf of Mexico are
found at the top.
AGE m.y.
"Interpolated and adapted from Berggren et al., 1995"
Benthic Formainifera Planktonic
Foraminifera Nannofossil
0.10 Globoratalia flexusa
acme
0.25
Pseudoemiliania lacunosa A
0.50 "Globorot,
truncatulinoides coil change R/L"
0.55
Pseudoemiliania lacunosa B
0.60 Trimosina A
0.80
P. lacunosa variety
1.02 Sphaeroidinella
dehiscens acme A P. lacunosa C
1.19
Geophyrocapsa large
1.29
1.29
1.35 Hyalinea
balthica
Helicosphaera sellii
1.45 Angulogerina B
1.55 Sphaeroidinella
dehiscens acme B Calcidiscus macintyrei
1.83
1.95
Discoaster brouweri
2.02 Cristellaria S
2.10
Discoaster brouweri A
2.20 Globorotalia menardii
coil change L/R
2.25 Lenticulina 1
2.30 Globorotalia
miocenica Discoaster pentaradiatus
2.55
Discoaster surculus
3.00 Globorotalia
multicamerata
3.09 Globoquadrina
altispira Discoaster tamalis
3.12
Sphaeroidinellopsis seminulina
3.37
3.47
Sphenolithus abies
3.58 "Globorot, margaritae"
3.64
Reticulofenestra pseudoumbilica
4.12
4.18 Globigerina nepenthes
4.30
Sphenolithus abies B
4.38 "Buliminella 1/Tex.
mexicana
Amaurolithus tricorniculatus
4.85
4.90 Globigerinoides
mitra Ceratolithus acutus
5.10 Textularia X
5.10 G. menardi coil change
R/L
5.20
Discoaster A
5.92
Discoaster B
6.15 Robulus E
6.38
Discoaster C
6.91 Bigenerina A
7.27
Discoaster neohamatus/calcaris
7.40
Discoaster loeblichii
7.50
Catinaster mexicanus
7.60 Cristellaria K
7.80 Cyclammina 3
8.80 Bolivina thalmannii Globorotalia
lenguaensis Discoaster prepentaradiatus
9.10 Discorbis
12
Discoaster bollii
9.40
Discoaster hamatus
9.50 Textularia L
9.90
Catinaster coalitus
10.60
10.80 Bigenerina 2 Globorotalia mayeri
10.85 Cibicides carstensi
10.95 Uvigerina 3
11.00
Coccolithus miopelagicus
11.80
11.90 Globorotalia fohsi
robusta
11.90
Discoaster kugleri acme
12.00 Textularia W
12.80 Globorotalia fohsi fohsi
12.82
Discoaster sanmiguelensis
12.85 Bigenerina humblei
13.20
13.45
13.55 Cristellaria 1 Globorotalia fohsi
barisanensis
13.60
Sphenolithus heteromorphus
14.80 Praeorbulina
glomerosa Sphenolithus heteromorphus acme
14.90 Cibicides opima
15.47 Amphistegina
B
Helicosphaera ampliaperta
15.60
15.80
15.85 Robulus L
16.39 Camerina 1/Robulus mayeri
16.77 Gyroidina 9
17.00 Catapsydrax stainforthi
17.08
Sphenolithus belemnos
17.10 Catapsydrax dissimilis
17.30 Cristellaria A
18.20 Marginulina ascensionensis
18.30
Discoaster calculosus
19.50
Discoaster sanudersi
20.20 Siphonina davisi
21.50 Cristellaria R
22.90
Helicosphaera recta
23.90
Dictyococcites bisecta
24.00 Globigerina ciperoensis
24.00 Robulus A
24.20 Discorbis gravelli
24.30 Globigerina sellii
24.35 Heterostegina sp.
24.50 Cibicides jeffersonensis
24.60 Bolivina perca
24.75
Sphenolithus ciperoensis
25.05 Marginulina idiomorpha
25.25 Marginulina vaginata
25.95 Marginulina howei
26.50 Textularia 14
26.60 Camerina A
27.10 Miogypsinoides A
27.50
Sphenolithus distentus
27.65
27.75 Cibicides hazzardi
28.10 Cyclammina A
28.60 Marginulina texana
29.00 Bolivina mexicana
29.40
Sphenolithus predistentus
29.70 Nonion struma
29.90 Nodosaria blanpiedi
30.20
30.30
30.40 Textularia seligi Globigerina ampliapertura
30.60
Discoaster tani nodifer
31.20
31.90
32.00
32.20 Textularia warreni
32.30 Cibicides mississippiensis Reticulofenestra umbilica
32.40 Loxostoma B
32.80
Ericsonia formosa