>> If we cannot by reason nor natural sciences truly detect the
presence of
a God, then I guess it must be through individual relationship with
God.>>
I am in partial agreement. The mere existence of life, and all we
experience, is, to me, evidence of "something." If I were not a
Christian, I'd probably be a deist on the basis of this evidence.
To be a Christian, one must, (IMHO of course) encounter the Christian God
(more accurately, be encountered by him) individually, supernaturally.
Like many people, I am not real happy with this state of affaires, but
that
seems to be the way it is, none-the-less.
>> For me, the problem with this scenario is anthropology. All around the
world
folks have personal relationships with "their" gods.... If personal
experience is the only guide, then a very large number of gods are
allowable. Then you must argue that the gods of all are really your
Christian God.>>
The problem with that argument is that it tries to solve a theological
problem
(which is, I will admit, difficult, albeit not impossible) rather than
inquiring into what it is that is the core of Christianity.
The core, IMO, is a love relationship with Jesus Christ. Not a church, a
set of doctrines, a set of answers. All of these things are interesting
and have their place, but they are simply tertiary (not even secondary)
issues.
>>Then comes the problem of psychology--can humans be brought up, or
induced to believe, widely shared ideas that are demonstrably wrong?
History abounds in
such examples.>>
Agreed, Astrology is my favorite example. The tenets of ICR are a distant
second.
>>Can you tell me why your personal experience with God, without reason
or
natural science, is to be trusted so much?>>
It is not without reasons; it places reason in a subordinate position. It
is not without natural science; I am (was, I am now retired) a physicist
and in other sciences.
Once again on this, Will. I was a non-believer. At one point I put God to
the test. I told him (audibly, and I felt silly doing it, so I did it
while driving alone to work) that I was willing to embrace this Christian
bit IF he would convince me. The convincing, I told him, was up to him,
not me. I'd do the study bit, but most of all I'd promise him
willingness.
Will -- I was brought up with one precept very much in 1st place. A
promise is a promise. So I meant what I said. That was 30 or 35 years
ago.
One day I suddenly realized, somewhat to my discomfort, that the
encounter had happened.
As the years have gone by, I realize more and more that such encounters
are highly individualistic. I've also realized just how real they are.
What about the problems of other religions, psychology, etc.?
Interesting. I have no particular opinions on most of these. Some people
study them closely, and do. That's fine. What I do know -- and I use the
word "know" deliberately, is the fact that God exists, Jesus Christ
lives, and I am his follower. All else is secondary.
On the Meta LISTSERV a guy by the name "Raman," (famous name, but it's
been 90 years since the physicist Raman did his work) wrote about the
three concepts:
rationality
ir-rationality
trans-rationality (I have seen it also called a-rationality)
That might help in understanding this strange phenomena. And it might
not.
Appreciate the dialog, Will. I'll say just one more thing -- then ring
off.
Jesus's primary command is "love your neighbor." Love, of course, in the
sense of agape, concern for.
What I read from you indicates you are following that command.
That makes us closer than some of my very enthusiastic YEC friends. IMO
again.
Best...
Burgy
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