1st, consider the vast number of events in the world which take
place every day in accord with natural processes - fusion reactions in
the sun, cells metabolizing, bodies falling, plants growing &c. Even if
all the events you cite are beyond the possibility of nature, their
number is very small in comparison with the first category. Miraculous
healings may take place, but the great majority come through "letting
nature take its course" or by medicine, surgery, &c.
But there is no reason to think that all the events you note are
miraculous in the "supernatural" sense. Yes, the Holy Spirit works
faith, gives charisms &c - but much of what takes place can be described
& to some extent explained in terms of psychology. N.B. - this doesn't
mean the Spirit doesn't do them, any more than healing through surgery
takes place without God.
Furthermore - just what do you think God _is_ doing, if
anything, in the natural processes which obey rational laws - which is
to say, most of the things that happen in the world?
George explains why this isn't "deism",
> > This doesn't mean that God is locked into a deterministic
> >machine. Quantum & chaos theory indicate that there is some freedom in
> >the linkages of events, & so even with God's voluntary self-limitation
> >there is scope for divine freedom.
>
> To me, this still sounds like "running wild" -- i.e., behaving according
> to "matter in random motion" principles. And it sounds like deism.
> (except, of course, for the "small set of miracles")
1st, it is hardly nature "running wild" if it's in accord with
rational laws. & I guess you can repeat "deism" if you wish, but I
don't see how a belief that God is active in everything that happens in
the world can reasonably be labelled that.
> I think Jason Alley has the right idea when he says,
> > The central
> > issue is the diety, death, and ressurection of Christ. Lead people to
> > Christ based on this,
Where it needs to begin is the cross - "God himself lies dead".
& if people can get a glimmering of what this means, that God's glory is
shown in taking on the suffering, death & humiliation of the world, then
the idea that God insists on "leaving his fingerprints all over" events
so he can get all the credit for them will appear ludicrous.
Isn't Jesus risen? Yes. But note what Paul said he decided to
preach in Corinth - not "Christ risen" but "Christ crucified".
> And obviously so.
> But I don't see how "answers to prayer" can occur by mere "immanence"
..............................
As I noted, & as Polkinghorne (e.g.) has emphasized, the "loose
jointedness" of connection between events implied by quantum & chaos
theories means that God has freedom of choice in the world, & can take
prayer into account in his providential action.
George Murphy